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yesterday at a business roundtable of ceos, president obama took a hard line warning opponents not to consider the strategy. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> senator tom coburn yesterday on "morning joe" became the latest to break ranks saying he could support president obama's tax proposal. he joins a growing group of people urging house leadership to clear the way for a broad deal that would include tax increases on the wealthy. however, according to "the new york times," speaker boehner is enjoying broad support from within his own caucus. and yesterday boehner stuck to his guns favoring closing tax loopholes and capping deductions to raising taxes. >> now the revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the same people pay more of their mone
yesterday at a business roundtable of ceos, president obama took a hard line warning opponents not to consider the strategy. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> senator tom coburn yesterday on "morning joe" became the latest to...
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debt and entitlement restructuring. that's what they voted for and the reason he's doing it now is because none of the democratic senators that were elected, and they did a great job, they really kicked our butts with these senators, none of them, not a one of them ran on increasing taxes on anybody in this kind of recovery. that top 2% are the job creators. they're small businesses. >> he also wants congress to give up that leverage over the debt ceiling because that is also presenting itself as another ugly battle. and you know what, paul begala, it is being said that that is one heck of a piece of boehner leverage. >> well, it is. but i think it's outrageous. i think this brinksmanship about the budget and the fiscal cliff is all just fine. i don't want to go over the cliff. >> does the president want to go over? we got to listen to all the republicans and the conservative media today are saying president obama wants to go over the fiscal cliff because then taxes go up across the board. >> which is not what the presi
debt and entitlement restructuring. that's what they voted for and the reason he's doing it now is because none of the democratic senators that were elected, and they did a great job, they really kicked our butts with these senators, none of them, not a one of them ran on increasing taxes on anybody in this kind of recovery. that top 2% are the job creators. they're small businesses. >> he also wants congress to give up that leverage over the debt ceiling because that is also presenting...
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candidate barack obama, identical about his law school debt. >> his convention speech as well. >> it's a little eerie. >> you can replace some of the words they're the same script. >> nancy, watching ryan and rubio try to get past 47% and they were both in a very, i think effective ways. very good speeches. >> used the phrase middle class 37 times in 30 minutes, what do you think that's about. >> errol, rubio and ryan are potentially the future of the party and you had what we watched on the senate floor yesterday a bunch of senate republicans with their tail between their legs hiding, worried about primary challenges because they might get rid of american sovereignty to the united nations over disabilities. >> it was a little depressing asking the world to get up to u.s. standards and do what we do as far as curb cuts and access and ability to get around, to suggest that this was somehow going to be bad for america was absurd and i think when we poll it, when you look at it as it starts to sink in, in the country, they'll see they are on the wrong side of yet another issue. >> quickly
candidate barack obama, identical about his law school debt. >> his convention speech as well. >> it's a little eerie. >> you can replace some of the words they're the same script. >> nancy, watching ryan and rubio try to get past 47% and they were both in a very, i think effective ways. very good speeches. >> used the phrase middle class 37 times in 30 minutes, what do you think that's about. >> errol, rubio and ryan are potentially the future of the party...
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ç president obama won't have it. the president is attacking the only leverage republicans have left. the president spoke to a group of ceos today and said that he will not negotiate if debt ceiling is going to be used as a hostage. >> i have to just tell you, that is a bad strategy for america, it is a bad strategy for your businesses, and it is not a game that i will play. so i want to send a very clear message to people here. we are not going to play that game next year. if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again, as part of a budget negotiation, which, by the way, we have never done in our history, until we did it last year, i will not play that game. because we've got to break that habit before it starts. >> treasury secretary tim geithner also made it very clear, this is no game. he spoke with cnbc about holding the line with tax increases for the top 2%. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration
ç president obama won't have it. the president is attacking the only leverage republicans have left. the president spoke to a group of ceos today and said that he will not negotiate if debt ceiling is going to be used as a hostage. >> i have to just tell you, that is a bad strategy for america, it is a bad strategy for your businesses, and it is not a game that i will play. so i want to send a very clear message to people here. we are not going to play that game next year. if congress...
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this is clearly a different president obama than the one we saw during the debt ceiling negotiations or even after the midterm elections in 2010 when he felt a little weakened and there was the extension of those bush tax cuts for the wealthy. so i think when you're seeing here is a president who put this on the table, trying to please his base, okay? which got him elected after all. saying, this is my wish list, this is in a perfect world, this is what i would do. i don't think anyone at the white house expected the republicans to say, oh, thank you mr. president, yes, this looks lovely. let's go on and work on a deal. no, that's not what it was. the white house -- this is alfonse gaston a little bit here. and so they're waiting for the republican response. and what they're really talking about, brooke, is getting some kind of a first step. a down payment. ironically they all know what -- in the big picture needs to be done. they know you have to fix entitlements, do something on the tax side, but they're trying to figure out how to get from here to there. >> and let's just stop the
this is clearly a different president obama than the one we saw during the debt ceiling negotiations or even after the midterm elections in 2010 when he felt a little weakened and there was the extension of those bush tax cuts for the wealthy. so i think when you're seeing here is a president who put this on the table, trying to please his base, okay? which got him elected after all. saying, this is my wish list, this is in a perfect world, this is what i would do. i don't think anyone at the...
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yesterday at a business roundtable of ceos, president obama took a hard line, warning his opponents not to consider this strategy. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to dell creting votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, which, by the way, we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> well, i wonder, the president's saying, steve, that, you know what, we can raise rates now and maybe lower them later next year so republicans are now saying we can raise rates now. maybe we'll lower them later and we'll talk about it during the debt ceiling. now he's saying no, we're not going to talk about it then either. when would we have this debate when we were renaming post offices in july? can you clarify something for people that are watching? republicans are talking about raising taxes on the rich. and john boehner said that yesterday. we're talking about raising taxes on the rich. we're just not talking about raising the top marginal rate, right? i mean, both sides a
yesterday at a business roundtable of ceos, president obama took a hard line, warning his opponents not to consider this strategy. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to dell creting votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, which, by the way, we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> well, i wonder, the president's saying, steve, that, you know what, we...
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>> on the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling? >> on the debt ceiling. >> i was very interested by your reporting. that you took a really strong position there. i do think the white house has been transformed. both by the experience with the debt ceiling and with the election. i think if they want to stand their ground, i think they can actually do it. i think that that is, in fact, possible. can they? you know, we'll see. they seem a lot tougher now than they were last time around. don't you think? >> they sound very tough now. chrystia freeland of thomson, and author of "the plutocrats." >>> i promised, red lobster, olive garden, timely for both, and i will deliver. that is ahead. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the mercedes-benz winter event is back, with the perfect vehicle that's just right for you, no matter which list you're on. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho, ho! [ male announcer ] lease a 2013 c250 for $349 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe do
>> on the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling? >> on the debt ceiling. >> i was very interested by your reporting. that you took a really strong position there. i do think the white house has been transformed. both by the experience with the debt ceiling and with the election. i think if they want to stand their ground, i think they can actually do it. i think that that is, in fact, possible. can they? you know, we'll see. they seem a lot tougher now than they were last time...
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speaking to a business roundtable, president obama responded to that idea this way. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again, as part of a budget negotiation, which by the way we have never done in our history until we did this it last year, i will not play that game. >> john boehner and house republican leadership met with small business owners today to talk about the fiscal cliff, raising tax rates on the richest americans for them is still off the table. >> the revenues on the table are coming from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal and our outline, i think he's got an obligation to send one to the congress. a plan that can pass both chambers of congress. >> joining me now is former vermont governor howard dean and msnbc's krystal ball. governor dean, our
speaking to a business roundtable, president obama responded to that idea this way. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again, as part of a budget negotiation, which by the way we have never done in our history until we did this it last year, i will not play that game. >> john boehner and house republican leadership met with small business owners today to talk about the fiscal cliff,...
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>> i think -- well, i think we should, one -- first of all, we have to pay down the debt he ran up. we're spending $1 trillion more each year, the federal government -- we, the federal government is spending $1 trillion more each year than when obama walked into office. it's that overspending we need to bring down. raising taxes doesn't solve the overspending problem. it feeds it. and, again, we have been through this lucy and the football thing in '82, in '90. we didn't take the advice of the tax increase last year, and we got spending restraint for the debt ceiling. remember, the republican house has a tremendous power over the debt ceiling. so all this stuff about how we have to bend to the emperor's will isn't true. >> all right. grover norquist, thanks very much. we appreciate your taking the time tonight. let's bring in james carville and reihan salam. good to see you. grover norquist is not bending. not yet. >> well, president obama, or as mr. norquist refers to him, obama -- president obama has done something mr. norquist has never done in his life and that's get people to v
>> i think -- well, i think we should, one -- first of all, we have to pay down the debt he ran up. we're spending $1 trillion more each year, the federal government -- we, the federal government is spending $1 trillion more each year than when obama walked into office. it's that overspending we need to bring down. raising taxes doesn't solve the overspending problem. it feeds it. and, again, we have been through this lucy and the football thing in '82, in '90. we didn't take the advice...
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president obama has nearly doubled the debt. the spending is out of control. and it's -- we have this economy that continues to struggle -- >> the debt ceiling -- >> the debt ceiling is our opportunity to really look at these questions, but the republicans want to negotiate -- speaker boehner the day after the election, went to the podium and put tax revenue on the table. this is our moment, this is our -- tip o'neill and president reagan back in the early '80s, they came together. they negotiated to save social security as well as address the spending. and it was a $3 in spending cuts to every dollar in new revenue. and that's the type of approach we need today. >> they never used the issue of debt ceiling in those negotiations. that's relatively new. the president says, i will not play that game. he may have no choice, because the republicans have a decisive majority in the house of representatives. if they want to play that game, he's going to have to do it. >> whey believe the president is saying is, we could get to a big deal, a good big deal that's balan
president obama has nearly doubled the debt. the spending is out of control. and it's -- we have this economy that continues to struggle -- >> the debt ceiling -- >> the debt ceiling is our opportunity to really look at these questions, but the republicans want to negotiate -- speaker boehner the day after the election, went to the podium and put tax revenue on the table. this is our moment, this is our -- tip o'neill and president reagan back in the early '80s, they came together....
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>> i think -- well, i think we should, one -- first of all, we have to pay down the debt he ran up. we're spending $1 trillion more each year, the federal government -- we, the federal government is spending $1 trillion more each year than when obama walked into office. it's that overspending we need to bring down. raising taxes doesn't solve the overspending problem. it feeds it. and, again, we have been through this lucy and the football thing in '82, in '90. we didn't take the advice of the tax increase last year, and we got spending restraint for the debt ceiling. remember, the republican house has a tremendous power over the debt ceiling. so all this stuff about how we have to bend to the emperor's will isn't true. >> all right. grover norquist, thanks very much. we appreciate yourtation the time tonight. let's bring in james carville and rihan salaam. good to see you. grover norquist is not bending. not yet. >> well, president obama, or as mr. norquist refers to him, obama -- president obama has done something mr. norquist has never done in his life and that's get people to vo
>> i think -- well, i think we should, one -- first of all, we have to pay down the debt he ran up. we're spending $1 trillion more each year, the federal government -- we, the federal government is spending $1 trillion more each year than when obama walked into office. it's that overspending we need to bring down. raising taxes doesn't solve the overspending problem. it feeds it. and, again, we have been through this lucy and the football thing in '82, in '90. we didn't take the advice...
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you saw the debt ceiling debate that went on last year and there were all these meetings between the white house and congressional leaders and didn't seem like they were working and doesn't work to president obama's advantage and the strategy is to go outside, get some pressure going. and they don't really want to have a meeting or else they lose the mojo and interesting what anna says and i think people are concerned because two weeks ago you have a kumbaya feeling and you're not feeling that now. but it's december 3rd. in the way these things work and we saw this in the payroll tax cut last year, the debt ceiling, the near-government shutdown last year f. you blink you kind of wait until the last minute to do it. >> when no one notices. >> reporter: yeah. i think in a couple of weeks that's when you maybe are really looking for more movement. >> we'll see. thank you so much for joining us this morning. >>> imagine if sea level rose by two feet. that could actually happen within our children's lifetimes. scientists say ice in antarctica is melting faster than expected. bill nye the
you saw the debt ceiling debate that went on last year and there were all these meetings between the white house and congressional leaders and didn't seem like they were working and doesn't work to president obama's advantage and the strategy is to go outside, get some pressure going. and they don't really want to have a meeting or else they lose the mojo and interesting what anna says and i think people are concerned because two weeks ago you have a kumbaya feeling and you're not feeling that...
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obama's objective in these negotiations is not economic but political. not to solve the debt crisis but to fracture the republican majority in the house. get boehner to cave, pass the tax hike with democratic votes provided by minority leader nancy pelosi and let the republican civil war begin. it doesn't even matter whether boehner gets deposed as speaker. either way, the republican house would be neutered, giving obama a free hand to dominate washington and fashion the entitlement state of his liking. what should republicans do? stop giving stuff away. if obama remains intransigent, let him be the one to take us over the cliff, and then let the new house, which is sworn in weeks before the president, immediately introduce and pass a full across-the-board restoration of the george w. bush tax cuts. >> so i don't think that's inconsistent with anything that i just said. i agree with him 100%. what have i been saying for a week? do not cave. compromise. do not cave. if the president doesn't want to meet us halfway on massive entitlement cuts, on reforming
obama's objective in these negotiations is not economic but political. not to solve the debt crisis but to fracture the republican majority in the house. get boehner to cave, pass the tax hike with democratic votes provided by minority leader nancy pelosi and let the republican civil war begin. it doesn't even matter whether boehner gets deposed as speaker. either way, the republican house would be neutered, giving obama a free hand to dominate washington and fashion the entitlement state of...
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couldn't boehner have made a real legacy that said i accept the debt deal that obama and i are negotiating which is essentially his opening offer now? wouldn't that have been the legacy that he could have rested his hat on? >> it would have been interesting. he essentially attempted to be a representative of his caucus rather than a leader of his caucus. >> exactly. >> it would have been interesting. i think he could have either been a great leader or burned and gone -- been taken down. it was a 50/50 proposition. >> all right. matt lewis, thank you so much. >> thank you, matt. >> fascinating. incredible read, "herding cats." >>> still ahead -- it's just cruel. i felt bat readid reading it. you know where i stand. >> cures cancer. >> let's see. >> okay. >>> coming up, we're going to bring in republican congressman tom cole who broke ranks with his party over the tax debate last week. can't wait to talk to him and get his insights. also, we'll be talking foreign policy with national security adviser dr. brzezinski. keep it right here on "morning joe." music is a universal language. but when
couldn't boehner have made a real legacy that said i accept the debt deal that obama and i are negotiating which is essentially his opening offer now? wouldn't that have been the legacy that he could have rested his hat on? >> it would have been interesting. he essentially attempted to be a representative of his caucus rather than a leader of his caucus. >> exactly. >> it would have been interesting. i think he could have either been a great leader or burned and gone -- been...
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president obama or then governor romney. the notion that this country every 12, 14 month is going to have this hostage taking by congress over a debt ceiling is not a way to run, you know, the largest enterprise in the world, the united states government. there's nothing in the constitution that talks about a debt ceiling. this has become kind of in the past a pro forma process that has now turned into a financial armageddon each time it comes about and i do think granting the president these additional rights and then allowing congress with a two-thirds vote to say, hold on here, that might be a more appropriate way regardless of who is the president is. but i don't think yesterday's antics have that much to do with at least the current stage of the boehner/obama discussions. >> let's talk about the current stage. "new york times" saying it's one on one right now with the speaker and the president yet some leading democrats are saying, no, that's not the case. that they are still involved in the process. what do you know ab
president obama or then governor romney. the notion that this country every 12, 14 month is going to have this hostage taking by congress over a debt ceiling is not a way to run, you know, the largest enterprise in the world, the united states government. there's nothing in the constitution that talks about a debt ceiling. this has become kind of in the past a pro forma process that has now turned into a financial armageddon each time it comes about and i do think granting the president these...
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debt ceiling. president obama pushed for the power trance fosform as part of white house plan they unveiled a week ago. fiscal cliff, 26 days away. christine romans explains how going over the cliff could affect you and your family. >> reporter: brooke, here's what the sequester could mean for domestic programs. fewer women and children with assistance and child care aid. cuts to education nearly 100,000 head start spots at risk. more than 25,000 teachers and teachers aids could lose their jobs and science and public research grants could be cut including in to cancer and childhood diseases. fewer americans could receive drug abuse treatment and $700 million slashed from the epa budget. cutting back of food inspection. disaster relief, omb says, quote, the federal emergency management administration's ability to respond would be undermined. and finally, from border patrol to hiring new fbi agents, correction officers, federal prosecutors, all could be scaled back. now, all of these cuts, brooke, do
debt ceiling. president obama pushed for the power trance fosform as part of white house plan they unveiled a week ago. fiscal cliff, 26 days away. christine romans explains how going over the cliff could affect you and your family. >> reporter: brooke, here's what the sequester could mean for domestic programs. fewer women and children with assistance and child care aid. cuts to education nearly 100,000 head start spots at risk. more than 25,000 teachers and teachers aids could lose...
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we now have 16 trillion in debt on the backs of our children and grand children. that is the biggest threat to our national security and nation's future. >> quickly, some republicans have whispered privately, some not privately, they believe president obama, the white house, congressional democrats, want to go over the fiscal cliff because they believe that it is more politically advantageous for them to do so. is that a sentiment you agree with or not? >> i believe that the president and the democrats see a political victory at the bottom of the fiscal cliff. i see financial problems for our country at the bottom of the fiscal cliff with unemployment over 9%, and another recession. i think -- i want to find a solution working with people on both sides of the aisle but when you have howard dean, the former chairman of the democratic national committee, you have patty murray, who ran the democratic senatorial committee encouraging going over the cliff i think it's irresponsible. i think we ought to have the president sitting down with john boehner, finding solution
we now have 16 trillion in debt on the backs of our children and grand children. that is the biggest threat to our national security and nation's future. >> quickly, some republicans have whispered privately, some not privately, they believe president obama, the white house, congressional democrats, want to go over the fiscal cliff because they believe that it is more politically advantageous for them to do so. is that a sentiment you agree with or not? >> i believe that the...